Love the new book, but! Would it be possible to have all the piste maps in the wonderful double page layout? Some piste maps still need a 10x loupe to see them, I admit the smaller resorts dont need the double pages, but resorts in and near the Italian Milky Way could be a bit better and maybe have a section on the website where the maps could be downloaded? Am I the only one who thinks Piste maps in resorts are rubbish!
 
Clint

We love our maps too - agree a few more need re-sizing though. Can’t reveal any plans for the next edition, but we’re always improving them. I’ll mention your point about the Milky Way. Good idea about the website. I don’t think piste maps are rubbish - but there are certainly quite a few that drive me mad…why do some resorts continue to produce maps with names/numbering that don’t match the piste markers etc for example. I never really got to grips with the 3-D idea, so more maps should include slope direction. What do you think makes a better piste map?

hi,i think piste maps are certainly important in the context of the job they do,after all an early intermediate skier who wants to explore a ski area does not want to find themselves at the top of a seriously steep black with no other way to go,or lost in a vertual whie out not knowing which piste connects with which other.
 
I think where they start to get confusing for people is when firstly they are not updated regularl enough,or when the resort tries to over fill the map with information.In my travels around the tarentaise resorts near my apartment i regularly come across skiers who either are having trouble locating thier position on the map or don’t actually have a map at all( i always carry two or three relevent to the resort i am skiing just in case i bump into any skiers without a piste map who are lost).
 
Mind you with experience most skiers will work out that if they are having trouble finding thier way and the weather is not good,skiing piste marker to piste marker,or with a chair lift in sight will generally lead them to a lifty who can help,or that its not embarrasing at all just to ask the next skier they see for help,after all we have all been there i am sure.
 
My own personal preference for a piste map would be smaller in overall size and made of something slightly sturdier,as its not much funtrying to read or fold a map in a howling gale.
p.s- Wendy, i hope you’re trip to les arcs was enjoyable and hope you had a great time skiing,a gem of an area and under valued by many.

Hi Jon
 
Trip to Les Arcs was excellent - thanks. Really enjoyed the ski area and staying in Arc 1950 was better than expected. So much variety - though didn’t think there were many black runs, except the few around Arc 2000 (and most of these are now being labelled ski-routes! - tried to find out the reasoning behind this as the runs were, apparently, not groomed previously. Fab run down to Villaroger and the pretty Solliet restaurant. Lots to write about…
 
Piste map pretty good I thought too.
 

Perhaps I am a nerd, but I like studying piste maps. I think they are wonderful works of cartography and art and the skill of the artist who creates a representation of a multi valley 3 dimensional ski area is amazing. Just try consulting a topographical map of the area to see what I mean. This means I also spend a lot of time in evenings, and before going on trips studying piste maps, and then rarely consult them when skiing. In fact for my last two trips to Les Arcs and Tignes I didn?t bother taking one out with me.
 
I also collect piste maps from every ski trip I have been on and compare the changes in the resorts over the years. The amazing thing is that not only do the lifts change, but also do the pistes. I made the comparisons below from the first time I visited Les Arcs 20 years ago and the present. See the bottom of this post if you are interested.
 
In reply to Wendy?s comments upon the blacks in Les Arc all being in the 2000 sector; there are 3 excellent blacks in the 1600 sector: Combourciere, Deux Tetes and Fond Blanc, and the Ours from the top of the Arpette lift. There are no blacks in the 1800 sector and the 2 mentioned in Vallandry do not merit their colour. Roulles in 1600 is excellent in powder conditions. The analysis below shows that a number of blacks have been removed, though of course they still exist on the ground if you know where to look.
 
I am glad that the resorts, such as Les Arcs and the Espace Killy now officially leave some pistes un-bashed. This allows those of us, who like challenges, some excellent pistes like Ours, or Malgovert to play on, but alerts people who like a billiard table piste to avaoid them and not get a nasty shock. It is a move in the right direction in my opinion.
 

Pistes lost
Piste du Pre ? black to the right of the 50 lift in the Villoroger section
Piste de Villoroger ? red to the left of the 50 lift
The Aguille Rouge use to be a black and the Rhonaz a red!
Varet ? Black; still signs on the mountain but not on piste map
Flying K has moved to the other side of the Robert blanc
Piste du Lac Marloups a red following a similar line to arandelieres, but started from the top of the drag lift 35
Piste de la vagere ? a black more or less directly under the Col des Fretes chairlift. This is now a popular near piste cut off. The bottom part still exists as a red
Piste du Tommelet- a black from the top of the Cachette drag lift. A direct line down to the right of the then red Roulles piste
Piste de Bourg st Maurice ? red run from La Grange down to the chairlift in the town, just above the current funicular station (In addition to the telepherique there were two chairlifts from Bourg to Arc 1600)
 

Vernettes, a blue run to the left of the Combe chairlift. It looks as if it goes past the Notre-Dame des Vernettes and could be worth searching out.
All itinerares have been lost, such as down to Hautville Gondon from Arc 1800 and the Grand col
 

Pistes Gained
Lys
 

 
Golf; a red just to the left of the bottom part of the vagere piste, used to be the stade de slalom.
Arolles, The bottom part of which appears on the old piste map as an itinerare.
Violettes
Renard in Vallandry
Bosses ? this is the route of the old drag lift in Vallandry
 

 
In addition many pistes have been regraded, such as Roulles from red to black and Reches which has gone from black to red (having tried to cycle down it in the summer, perhaps it should be black).
 

John
 

Nothing wrong with being a nerd! I love studying maps too - lots of hill-walking based trips got me into that, then onto piste maps - like you, I have a box full here, though don’t get to study them quite as much as I’d like. It’s always useful comparing the piste map with the OS-style equivalents as it helps to place new lifts and double-check names (surprising how they vary - heights too).
 
Very interesting observations on Les Arcs here. Surprising how many changes there have been when you write it all down. I guess most are due to changes in lift placements/removals etc.
 
Malgovert was a red route I tried last week (powder day). Quite triky for me, but fun.  I did the black from Grand Col and, apart from some large, soft moguls, I didn’t think it really merited its grading - whereas the Ours one does (now a ski-route).
 

Wendy,
 
I often take beginners and nervous skiers down the Refuge piste you are referring to so that they can at least say they have done a black. The snow is usually excellent at the top half, but sometimes we quietly don’t see the continuation after it has merged with the red run. This part can end up very smooth and firm and you often see skiers trying to give birth to baby cats on it! There are lots of variations in this area worth exploring.
 
Glad you enjoyed the trip.
 
John

That gets me onto the topic of run grading, we went to Saas Fee last year, and the piste map in the Hotel showed one of the runs (near the half pipe) to be a nice long blue going back into the village. Standing at the top of the run and looking down, it’s more of a dark purple. maybe piste maps should have an average gradient on each run. I skied a black run on my first week skiing in Borovets, and some of the blues in Switzerland are steeper than the blacks in Borovets. I do agree with showing the directions of the runs. I think it’s Mountmaps? that does the 3D plastic fold out map, again a good idea, but by the time you’ve figured out where the run goes, and how to fold the thing up again, you can?t be bothered anymore. I want a nice A4 plastic map, with clear concise directions, and accurate colours too, not blues that look like black and vice versa.

I am not sure average gradients will be much help on the piste map; Epaule and Santons in Val d’Isere start and finish at the same place and they are roughly the same length hence have the same average gradient one is definateley a black and the other a blue and both (due to a massive horizontal walk out) have a lesser gradient that the green Vert. I am afraid that even maximum gradient would not help much since a short steep but wide section can me much easier than a longer narrower but more gentle section. And the normal condition of the piste also enters into the equation as well.
 
It is all rather subjective and it varies from resort to resort. It really only gives you a ranking of what is normaly harder than what.
 
The most confusing lift map I ever came across was for the Larch area in Lake Louise. There was one nice looking piste marked, but no obvious way to get to the start other than walking up hill. we never did get to the start of the run; perhaps there was a chair we just didn’t see.
 
BTW what was Borovets like? It has been years since I skied there and from what I remember is was a friendly place with somewhat limited skiing, most of which was of a blue standard and with the longest lift queues I have ever encountered.. I also got into trouble for buying a Bulgarian nationals lift pass, but that is another story.
 
John

I don’t know if anything much has changed in Borovets, we went there 3 years ago, the terrain is still limited, and the people were friendly, except the staff at the massive Rila Hotel - (think KGB)As you say most of the runs are very easy, brilliant place to learn! I felt like Bodi Miller most of the time, although I probably stayed on my skis more than he is at the moment!
 
Clint

John
 
On the subject on piste grading: you probably know the Clair Blanc red from the top of Arpette (Les Arcs)? Well, I thought that the top section of this was ridiculously difficult for a red - first you had to negotiate a tricky slide into it (everyone was taking great care), alongside the ‘bridge’, then there was a short, but very steep bit to start the run - far more akin to a black. Also puzzling was that the piste marker said it wasn’t groomed! Yet, it isn’t one of the new ski routes. What do you think?
 

Wendy,
 
I know the Clair Balnc very well. It is a favourite of mine, but, as you say, I have no idea why it is a red when the Fond Blanc the other side of the lift which is almost idendical in most respects (except it has an easier entry) is a black! In defence of the Clair Blanc the entry is the hard bit and there can be no doubt what you are getting from the very start of the run (you can even have a look on the webcam!).
 
From my experience the way in is to be quite bold about it. If the rock line just below the ridge is covered in snow then enter as far to the right as possible. Otherwise traverse directly under the retaining wall to the other side. Do not side slip under any circumstances. When you go up the otherside of the valley turn and you are on your way with the botom of your skis intact (hopefully).
 
And I am impressed with you doing this on a board. The Clair Blanc is not a run particularly suited to boarders.
 
Most of the "ski routes" you mentioned were long established routes that were either never pisted or rarely pisted. The resort has just acknowledged that fact. I think this was to stave off complaints from some skiers that they never bashed their runs. It has actually made no difference to their provision. As I mentioned earlier a number of resorts are now doing this. The Itinairies that used to exist in Les Arcs (that is totally unmarked routes) have now all disappeared from the piste map
 
John

So all we can do, is stand at the top of a run look down at it, chicken out or say what the hell, I’m going down. It doesnt seem there will ever be a standard way of grading a run. Thinking about it, there are also too many variables to take into account, snow fall, temperature, time of year, and most importantly ability. This I suppose, is why we all love skiing so much.
 
Clint

Richard, I see what you mean about the Grand Renard. The first part (from the top of the transarc) should be blue and given a different name (Dent du Peigne?). The run itself doesn’t start until you get to the col. The grading may discourage some skiers from going that way. But it is a horrible bit of track.
 
History does indeed cause problems. Initially Vallandry (actually initially called Peissey, Narcroix) was a completely different ski resort to Les Arcs and of course it had all its own names. When the resorts joined up it had the dilemma of renaming its runs, which everyone knew, or inventing new ones. It stayed with the old ones. Similar problems exist in Tignes/Val d?Isere. Of course now Les Arcs has joined with La Plagne you even have common lift names. I was quite excited a few years ago when I heard that the Arpette lift was being updated, then let down when it was actually the Arpette in La Plagne that was updated (A much more pressing update, in fact)
 
I think you are right in the factors you give for choosing the grade of a run, but wrong in the weights you give to each. Overall steepness has a much greater impact than you credit it, perhaps 60%. The weight given to ?on the hazards presented by other skiers and boarders? is an interesting one: I suppose you meant to say that on blue runs other users present a very high hazard and this gets progressively less as the difficulty of the run increases. I, for one, try to avoid blue runs specifically to reduce this hazard. Is it really a property of the run itself or does its grading generate it. Is it possibly the cart and not the horse?
 
Never mind downloading piste maps to the mobile phone. How about to your GPS. But that would require metric (as in maps you can measure from) as opposed the beautiful maps we have now at our disposal.
 
A few years ago I picked up a brochure in Val d’Isere which showed aerial photography of the resort with all the pistes marked. It never really caught on, but I liked it.
 
John

Richard,
 
From my experience it is the blue runs that have the largest speed differences and the biggest crowds. The users of these routes range from those cruising at high speed just to get somewhere else to timid beginers on their first run. On black runs most skiers are going fairly slowly on steep terrrain and mogul fields, largely know what they are doing and are fairly predictable. Of course there are exceptions to these, but high speed blacks are very rare.
 
John

Yes,
 
I like the annotated pistemaps as well.
 
John